I mentioned before that I might just post some of the "journal" entries that I have made in my "gospel library" scriptures. Here's the first. (Feel free to comment if you like with your take on it.)
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I recently heard an LDS missionary say, we hadn't prepared lesson so we just taught the gospel of Jesus Christ, THE THIRD LESSON. We taught him to endure to the end.
What?
Isn't THE call of missionaries to teach the gospel of Jesus Christ? (Not just as "A lesson," but as the whole of their calling)
And isn't enduring to the end, just the last part of that gospel?
I'm sure "the good news" of the atonement is more than just hang in there.
But then, I'm Dence.
Monday, May 23, 2016
Tuesday, May 17, 2016
So, What Do you Know About The 3 Nephites?
As I watched the series finale of Castle last night (I know, nothing I ought to admit to) what I thought was the end came, where Castle and Becket are both lying on the floor, shot, and bleeding out. I thought everyone was going to die. . . . And then they flash forward 7 years and they both survived and have a bunch of kids.
I mentioned to my wife how it would have been much better if everyone had died, like Shakespeare would do. Of course she gets all in a twist about how horrible that is, and why can't I appreciate a happy ending.
My response was, death is one of the few certainties we have.
To prove my point I asked her to name 2 people who had never died. (I thought she might try to claim Christ as one. Of course, the atonement required that he actually die, in order to be resurrected, and I didn't want to argue about that, so I said 2.)
A few minutes later, she said: "the 3 Nephites."
I was actually impressed.
So I asked her, "So, What Do you Know About The 3 Nephites?"
Turns out, no so much. But me either.
I mean I know the Sunday School answers that they made the same request as John the Beloved, when Christ appeared in the Book of Mormon. It was unknown whether they remained when the Nephites became wicked again, but they ministered to Mormon and Moroni in Mormon 8:11. They were then claimed by some to have appeared from nowhere to assist church members in trouble, only to disappear after rendering their aid. But that's about it. (Certainly no stories of such strangers “bringing the souls of men unto [Christ].”)
So I ran a quick google search and came up with Wm. Wilson's Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry here that calls tales of the 3 Nephites "one of the most striking religious legend cycles in the United States. . . . these stories are not official doctrine and are not published in official literature. They are based on the Book of Mormon account of Christ's granting to three Nephite disciples, during his visit to the New World following his death and resurrection, the same wish he had earlier granted to John the Beloved-to "tarry in the flesh" in order to bring souls to him until his second coming (John 21:22; 3 Ne. 28:4-9). The Book of Mormon account states: "And they [the Three Nephites] are as the angels of God, and…can show themselves unto whatsoever man it seemeth them good. Therefore, great and marvelous works shall be wrought by them, before the great and coming day [of judgment]" (3 Ne. 28:30-31)"
LDS.org has an entry under "Three Nephite Disciples" that says (among other things) "They were translated so that they would feel no pain and would not die" (3 Ne. 28). Which doesn't seem right as I'd always understood “Translation” to be the Old Testament version of what after the atonement became being part of the “first Resurrection.” Thereafter, I’d always been taught that folks would be “changed in the twinkling of an eye.” (3 Ne. 28:8) Essentially dying and being resurrected simultaneously if there was a need for them to do so.
The events of 3 Nephi 28, are clearly after Christ was resurrected. But since Christ promised the 3 Nephites to "never taste of death" or “never endure the pains of death” and “not have pain while ye shall dwell in the flesh” (3 Ne. 28:7-9) then they aren’t dying. So then it would appear that they aren’t being “twinkled” (At least not as I understand the concept.) either.
Yet, apart from these 3 men (and John the Beloved/Revelator), I am unaware of ANYONE being translated after the atonement.
(Yeah, I know Parley Pratt claimed people who are translated have a terrestrial body; and people who are resurrected have a celestial body, but I’m fairly certain that this is his opinion only. Besides, classification in and of itself, rarely leads to understanding.)
So are the doctrines of Translation and Resurrection mutually exclusive? Are they pre- and post- atonement sides of the same coin? If so, are the 3 Nephites (and John the Beloved), just the exception?
Or (as is more likely) am I just wrong, and they really are independent things (for different purposes)? And if so, what does God need either class of folks for? (See, D&C 49:8)
Most important though, is if both John the Beloved and/or the 3 Nephites remain on the earth to “bring the souls of men unto [Christ]” then where and how are they doing this? You’d expect that after almost 2,000 years, these guys would have hundreds, if not thousands of stories told about how they brought souls to Christ. Yet, I’ve never heard a 3 Nephites story that didn’t sound like what most folks would call a guardian angel (1-3 unknown guys show up and help out an already “converted” person in a time of need). While this may be nice, and allow for a happy ending, I don’t see how that helping hand brings the recipient to Christ. On the contrary, rather than teaching faith in Christ, and repentance (changing our hearts) through his atonement, such stories teach us to seek for unknown strangers who appear based on our worthiness/tithe payment/temple attendance/scripture reading/Sabbath observance, or other principle that teller of the tale (or the Church™) decides to emphasize as a basis for the stranger’s help. Whether factual or not, I’m not convinced that such stories have any real meaning or benefit.
I do see how they can be harmful though. I mean, if I’m checking all the boxes that the Church™ says I’m supposed to (yeah, they’ve probably invented more boxes than anyone can actually check, and they’ll always come up with a new one if you get close, so you’ll never be able to say that. But if you could . . .) Then why didn’t the 3 Nephites show up to help me in my time of need? And now what am I focusing on? (It’s NOT faith in Christ and Repentance)
And finally, where are the missionaries that are going on “splits” with the 3 Nephites? Where are the new members who gained a testimony due to the encounters with these men? They can’t be THAT bad of missionaries. I mean look at all they experience they should have in 20 centuries.
A reasonable person would look at all of this and say, impossible premise, no evidence of anything happening to confirm they are among us, let alone working to bring souls to Christ, looks like they don’t exist.
Maybe they’re right. But then again, I’m Dence.
I mentioned to my wife how it would have been much better if everyone had died, like Shakespeare would do. Of course she gets all in a twist about how horrible that is, and why can't I appreciate a happy ending.
My response was, death is one of the few certainties we have.
To prove my point I asked her to name 2 people who had never died. (I thought she might try to claim Christ as one. Of course, the atonement required that he actually die, in order to be resurrected, and I didn't want to argue about that, so I said 2.)
A few minutes later, she said: "the 3 Nephites."
I was actually impressed.
So I asked her, "So, What Do you Know About The 3 Nephites?"
Turns out, no so much. But me either.
I mean I know the Sunday School answers that they made the same request as John the Beloved, when Christ appeared in the Book of Mormon. It was unknown whether they remained when the Nephites became wicked again, but they ministered to Mormon and Moroni in Mormon 8:11. They were then claimed by some to have appeared from nowhere to assist church members in trouble, only to disappear after rendering their aid. But that's about it. (Certainly no stories of such strangers “bringing the souls of men unto [Christ].”)
So I ran a quick google search and came up with Wm. Wilson's Encyclopedia of Mormonism entry here that calls tales of the 3 Nephites "one of the most striking religious legend cycles in the United States. . . . these stories are not official doctrine and are not published in official literature. They are based on the Book of Mormon account of Christ's granting to three Nephite disciples, during his visit to the New World following his death and resurrection, the same wish he had earlier granted to John the Beloved-to "tarry in the flesh" in order to bring souls to him until his second coming (John 21:22; 3 Ne. 28:4-9). The Book of Mormon account states: "And they [the Three Nephites] are as the angels of God, and…can show themselves unto whatsoever man it seemeth them good. Therefore, great and marvelous works shall be wrought by them, before the great and coming day [of judgment]" (3 Ne. 28:30-31)"
LDS.org has an entry under "Three Nephite Disciples" that says (among other things) "They were translated so that they would feel no pain and would not die" (3 Ne. 28). Which doesn't seem right as I'd always understood “Translation” to be the Old Testament version of what after the atonement became being part of the “first Resurrection.” Thereafter, I’d always been taught that folks would be “changed in the twinkling of an eye.” (3 Ne. 28:8) Essentially dying and being resurrected simultaneously if there was a need for them to do so.
The events of 3 Nephi 28, are clearly after Christ was resurrected. But since Christ promised the 3 Nephites to "never taste of death" or “never endure the pains of death” and “not have pain while ye shall dwell in the flesh” (3 Ne. 28:7-9) then they aren’t dying. So then it would appear that they aren’t being “twinkled” (At least not as I understand the concept.) either.
Yet, apart from these 3 men (and John the Beloved/Revelator), I am unaware of ANYONE being translated after the atonement.
(Yeah, I know Parley Pratt claimed people who are translated have a terrestrial body; and people who are resurrected have a celestial body, but I’m fairly certain that this is his opinion only. Besides, classification in and of itself, rarely leads to understanding.)
So are the doctrines of Translation and Resurrection mutually exclusive? Are they pre- and post- atonement sides of the same coin? If so, are the 3 Nephites (and John the Beloved), just the exception?
Or (as is more likely) am I just wrong, and they really are independent things (for different purposes)? And if so, what does God need either class of folks for? (See, D&C 49:8)
Most important though, is if both John the Beloved and/or the 3 Nephites remain on the earth to “bring the souls of men unto [Christ]” then where and how are they doing this? You’d expect that after almost 2,000 years, these guys would have hundreds, if not thousands of stories told about how they brought souls to Christ. Yet, I’ve never heard a 3 Nephites story that didn’t sound like what most folks would call a guardian angel (1-3 unknown guys show up and help out an already “converted” person in a time of need). While this may be nice, and allow for a happy ending, I don’t see how that helping hand brings the recipient to Christ. On the contrary, rather than teaching faith in Christ, and repentance (changing our hearts) through his atonement, such stories teach us to seek for unknown strangers who appear based on our worthiness/tithe payment/temple attendance/scripture reading/Sabbath observance, or other principle that teller of the tale (or the Church™) decides to emphasize as a basis for the stranger’s help. Whether factual or not, I’m not convinced that such stories have any real meaning or benefit.
I do see how they can be harmful though. I mean, if I’m checking all the boxes that the Church™ says I’m supposed to (yeah, they’ve probably invented more boxes than anyone can actually check, and they’ll always come up with a new one if you get close, so you’ll never be able to say that. But if you could . . .) Then why didn’t the 3 Nephites show up to help me in my time of need? And now what am I focusing on? (It’s NOT faith in Christ and Repentance)
And finally, where are the missionaries that are going on “splits” with the 3 Nephites? Where are the new members who gained a testimony due to the encounters with these men? They can’t be THAT bad of missionaries. I mean look at all they experience they should have in 20 centuries.
A reasonable person would look at all of this and say, impossible premise, no evidence of anything happening to confirm they are among us, let alone working to bring souls to Christ, looks like they don’t exist.
Maybe they’re right. But then again, I’m Dence.
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